German activist and former HKU student David Missal is turned away at Hong Kong airport after hours of questioning after flying in from… Beijing. As some are pointing out, this could be an example of ‘1 Country. 2 Systems’, in which Hong Kong has the stricter regime. Something like this already happens: there are quite a few Hong Kong residents who get turned away from Macau.
The US State Dept issues a business advisory on Hong Kong, warning of ‘vague’ local and extraterritorial NatSec and Article 23 Laws risks to companies and personnel…
Businesses operating in Hong Kong face potential legal, regulatory, operational, financial, and reputational risks, including of increased scrutiny, potential financial penalties, and legal actions for perceived violations of the NSL or the SNS Ordinance.
Businesses operating in Hong Kong may face conflicting jurisdictional requirements and liability in connection with sanctions compliance efforts. Failure to adhere to U.S. sanctions can result in civil and criminal penalties under U.S. law.
The predictable response…
The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) today (September 7) rejected the misleading and untruthful remarks on Hong Kong’s legal system and business environment in the so-called updated “business advisory” issued by various departments of the government of the United States (US) which tried to create panic. It is necessary for the HKSAR Government to make clarifications to set the record straight.
There are 14 more paras.
From HKFP, an op-ed on education officials’ badminton theory of teen sex and the government’s growing antipathy towards gay rights activists…
…the Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Bureau (curiously) is in charge of an Equal Opportunities (Sexual Orientation) Fund which, since 2015, has supported NGOs working in this area.
For the current financial year its budget dropped by almost half. Many groups had funding cut or deleted altogether. The fund went from supporting 18 to 24 groups to supporting just 10. Also, among the survivors are three groups – all founded by the same person – offering “conversion therapy”, a scientifically disreputable attempt to turn gay people “straight” which is much cherished by religious groups.
Funding for AIDS prevention work, which comes from the Health Bureau, has also been cut. And the Equal Opportunities Commission has dropped its earlier enthusiasm for legislation against discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Like other NGOs which do not attract official support, those working in this area find it difficult to hold events in public places or to book venues for private ones. Fundraising has withered because of the legal hazards, particularly if the funds come from overseas.
…Are we approaching a new reality in which any NGO not wrapped in the tentacles of the local establishment is going to be frozen gradually out of existence? Fairness, like justice, must be not just done, but seen to be done.
This obviously reflects Beijing’s own fear of gay rights movements – which is mainly about a distrust of any civil society activism that is obviously spreading to Hong Kong. But it also suggests that the homophobic elements in Hong Kong’s civil service and conservative/pro-Beijing camp are seeing an opportunity to push their old Confucian-puritan agenda.
An HKFP story on the lobotomised Museum of Coastal Defence finds a local couple who support “enhancing national identity and one’s understanding of the country and its history” and hold that the 2019 protests had been “too extreme”, saying “Even if you don’t like it or don’t accept it, you can’t bring bystanders into [protests],”
Yet, simultaneously, without irony, they regret that free speech and criticism has been stamped out, mourning that “things aren’t as open as they used to be”.
Because, even if you’re not interested in politics ..
https://hongkongfp.com/2024/09/07/in-pictures-most-visitors-to-revamped-renamed-hong-kong-museum-unaware-of-patriotic-education-push/
“It is necessary for the HKSAR Government to make clarifications to set the record straight.”
But *did* they? Set the record so-called straight?
“…government’s growing antipathy towards gay rights activists…”
Must be large numbers of those ultra right wing, activist neo Catholics like US vice president candidate JD Vance (recent convert) embedded in the HKCCPSARG.
There’s always been a puritanical streak in the Christian schools that produce so many of Hong Kong civil servants. What’s new are the rabid nationalists who think gays are a form of foreign infiltration. (In fact it’s the opposite, homophobia was the foreign import during the early 20th Century.)
“But it also suggests that the homophobic elements in Hong Kong’s civil service and conservative/pro-Beijing camp are seeing an opportunity to push their old Confucian-puritan agenda.”
Aren’t there a lot of fundamentalist Christians who are principal officials in the HKSAR government?
By Western standards, Hong Kong is a conservative society. It always has been.
HK society is also fairly tolerant of people of various backgrounds & lifestyles. Historically, they have rubbed along quite well with foreigners and their odd ways. Mainly that’s because they really don’t give a damn one way or the other.
However, if a group of people, foreign or homegrown, engage in private behaviour that falls outside of society’s traditional values, flaunt their deviant behaviour in public, and then insist that it not only be tolerated but also accepted and celebrated, then naturally they will encounter resistance.
‘However, if a group of people, foreign or homegrown, engage in private behaviour that falls outside of society’s traditional values, flaunt their deviant behaviour in public, and then insist that it not only be tolerated but also accepted and celebrated, then naturally they will encounter resistance.’
Is that why there are so many prostitutes working in HKG?
That’s all OK is it?
And are you appointed to decide what is deviant behaviour?
It is not only the gay community that is being marginalized, govt depts and tax funded community service providers are on a mission to exclude citizens who cannot read Chinese from information on matters that directly concern them and access to services designed to aid the less well off.
In my mail box last week was a coloured pamphlet from Tung Wah supported by the Social Welfare Dept with information on district child care services. The only English provided was the very tiny name of the asssociations that come with their logos.
More alarming was the notification that our building has been targeted for a compulsory RENO. Now we all know that this involves cost of tens of thousands for each unit and a year, if not more, of the security, ventilation, construction noise and dust and other issues that come with having the building shrouded with scaffolding and netting. And lets not even consider the well documented triad / corruption involvement that go hand in hand with these renos.
Again the notice in Chinese only with a footnote that anyone wanting the English version could call a number. Needless to say the call is only picked up by an answering machine.
The notice advises that this is to save the environment! To put this into context, Buildings Dept will be actively involved in plans to fill in most of the fish ponds in NT and the destructive Lantau ocean fill in.
One can assume that either the government has embarked on a policy of sidelining non Chinese residents or that govt depts are demonstrating patriotism by eliminating the usage of the English language.
Both assumptions have alarming potential and contradict the many initiatives involving significant expenditure and manpower being expended on promoting Honkers as an international city.
Is frequenting saunas a few times a week “deviant behaviour”?
Asking for an Irish friend.
Historically, Confucian thought and its policy (or lack thereof) towards homosexuality has been a nonchalant one. Throughout Ancient Chinese history, homosexuals in Ancient China weren’t really persecuted to the same extent of their European counterparts. A Jesuit missionary in Ancient China, Matteo Ricci, in his travel journals (De Christiana expeditione apud Sinas) was quite disapproving of the general acceptance and nonchalance towards homosexuality and prostitution (both male and female). Male prostitutes were not uncommon across various different dynasties.
Even Emperors have famously had male companions who were believed to have acted in the same capacity as concubines. Emperor Ai of the Han Dynasty famously had a male companion (that many scholars suspect he had a homosexual relationship with) named Dong Xian; since the two often slept together on the same bed (in Ancient China, not necessarily an indication of homosexuality over close male friendship; Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei of the Three Kingdoms period were also noted to have slept on the same bed), one day, the Emperor awoke to find Dong Xian still asleep, his head resting on the Emperor’s long robe sleeve; rather than wake Dong Xian, the Emperor gingerly cut off his sleeve. This led to the idiom Duan Xiu Zhi Pi ( 斷袖之癖), or “the cut-sleeve passion”, which is used as a romantic literary term to insinuate a homosexual relationship.
Hurrah!
Does ‘flaunting their deviant behaviour’ include same sex couples sitting too close together, holding hands, or god forbid, kissing in public? What about mixed-race couples, or people with an exotic sense of fashion?
The hateful and puritan invariably reveal themselves through the words they choose (and rarely through the lives they live).
@Seamus and Load Toad
Things haven’t changed much in all these years.
While Queen Victoria’s dismissal of the existence of lesbians is probably mythical, in Hong Kong I recall a Legco debate in the 80s on the age of consent (if memory serves) being brought to a stunned silence by a female Unofficial Member (who at the age of 96 is still listed as CEO of the same NGO she represented at the time).
As the debate moved on to discuss the finer points of oral sex between consenting adults she interjected that this particularly deviant act only occurred between males, as “no Chinese woman would ever do such a thing” (presumably both to a man or to another woman, or to both, possibly even on the same occasion…no further evidence was forthcoming. It was just a fact, dismissed by a keeper of the public morals).
This was clearly an important point for her to make given the nature of the NGO she still ‘heads’ (pun intended), and its perpetual funding from the public purse.
One of two occasions where I recall the weekly RTHK live broadcast of Legco proceedings being interrupted for a music break!
CNet – Only if you are going for nuru massage. Ask Freddy Choi Chin-Pang!
@Load Toad
Prostitution in Hong Kong is not flaunted in public and its practitioners do not insist that their profession be accepted and celebrated. That’s a Western thing.
@James
Using the examples you cited, HK society has no problem with same sex couples sitting close together or holding hands. Kissing in public and similar public displays of affection make many HK people uncomfortable, but it is not a crime. Mixed-race couples or people with an exotic sense of fashion are not an issue, as you must know.
@Seamus O’Herlihy: “Prostitution in Hong Kong is not flaunted in public…”
Dude, when was the last time you visited Portland Street, Yau Ma Tei, somewhere near the MTR station exit? There are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of aunties flaunting the night away, every night. The old ones will settle for $ 200-. I had to disappoint one because I wouldn’t do it for only 200.
I think what Seamus O’Herlihy is getting at, is that the trans activists can’t flaunt themselves publicly here in HK and be celebrated like they can in the west, nor can they easily get access to children and try to convince them to become tran.
There’s a record number of underage people in the US specifically coming out as trans and part of the problem is Tik Tok and indoctrination by trans activists who are pushing puberty blockers and hormones to 12 year olds which is totally inappropriate.
They can do whatever they want with people 18 and over, but there’s an active push to convince kids who don’t know what they want to be to become trans.
My supporting evidence is Keffals who is a trans activists who ran a discord called “Catboy ranch” that groomed underage kids and sold them hormones with a “Don’t tell your parents!” disclaimer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo1_zQ1iTLs&pp=ygUHS2VmZmE7cw%3D%3D
The video focuses on the facts and isn’t trying to push alt-right ideology.
I’m going to cast an absentee ballot for Kamala so I’m not a MAGA guy. I also strongly support gay marriage, and agree with Critical Race Theory (which can be applied to other countries besides just the US, such as Malaysia). I just think kids needs to be left alone and not indoctrinated by creeps posing as activists who later turn out to be drug addicts (ahem Kaffles).
Hey, Seamus: All queer people of any configuration, and all minorities of any kind ever have wanted is the mutual respect and the RIGHTS afforded the majority. “Flaunting” amounts to whatever makes the most bigoted member of the majority community uncomfortable, and then comes the crackdown. And you never know exactly where the red line is. Sound like an echo of the NSL?
That’s autocracy. That’s fascism. Fuck all the way off with that.
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Well I can say with certainty, after many years of intense and exhausting research, that her premise is a load of horseshit.
@Seamus – you seem to have hit a nerve with your first comment. I must admit, I did do a mental “now hang on a minute!” upon first reading, but when I looked at it again I didn’t get the finger wagging so much. I think yours was a good point. That’s the problem with online forums; you can’t hear the cadence in the comments.
Mark: The vast majority of advice, care, and treatment that’s on offer to trans kids who aren’t of legal age is medically, psychologically, and scientifically responsible. It is offered by trained professionals, not by rando YouTubers. It can be in no way associated with any of these ideas of “grooming” or other kinds of exploitation. There are always, always going to be ill-informed, unscrupulous people who will attempt to exploit and cash in on any hot button issue. But under-18 trans youth desperately need responsible counseling and care, and in the US the current anti-trans hysteria (a classic moral panic) is preventing that especially in Republican-controlled states, leading to spikes in self-harm and suicide. Sure, go after the purveyors of irresponsible bullshit, but it’s the systemic neglect of real kids’ real needs that’s the far bigger crime here.
@steve
“But under-18 trans youth desperately need responsible counseling and care, and in the US the current anti-trans hysteria (a classic moral panic) is preventing that especially in Republican-controlled states, leading to spikes in self-harm and suicide.”
I am all for giving under 18s counselling from a medical professional, but not drugs that may be irreversible and cause sterility. In the UK this is a bipartisan issue and Labour had decided to also ban puberty blockers to under 18s as they can result in fertility issues.
Also if people diagnosed with gender dysmorphia are at such a risk of suicide or self harm isn’t the a mental health issue? I don’t know of anyone who is suicidal who isn’t mentally ill in some way. WHO only stopped recognising trans as a mental disorder in 2019 and I suspect it changed its stance for subjective not objective reasons.
Anecdotally my wife did make friends with a trans woman a few years ago. I kept an open mind and was supportive of the friendship and I met her few times too for drinks. But my wife was fed up with her in the end and severed the relationship and refused to give her another chance even when I encouraged her to.
My wife was fed up with the histrionics. This person was a total basket case with an insane amount of anxiety and extremely neurotic. Once she asked my wife to visit her and as my wife was an hour in on her commune to visit this person in Tung Chung she cancelled at the last minute. This person does have a therapist so they are getting mental health care.
This person has two kids and an ex wife in North American. I hope she is paying child support and alimony.
‘@Load Toad
Prostitution in Hong Kong is not flaunted in public and its practitioners do not insist that their profession be accepted and celebrated. That’s a Western thing.’
@Seamus O’Herlihy
What utter bollocks.
You are living either a very very sheltered life, do not live in Hong Kong or are simply being disingenuous
“The vast majority of advice, care, and treatment that’s on offer to trans kids who aren’t of legal age is medically, psychologically, and scientifically responsible.”
This is abundantly untrue. As is the term “trans kids”. There are a lot of children confused about their identity, for a lot of reasons. However almost all of these are not genuinely gender dysmorphic and would grow out of it (most likely to be gay or lesbian) were it not for a colossal trans lobby including doctors pushing pernicious “advice, care, and treatment” which leads to pharmaceutical intervention and surgical mutilation. None of which makes trans people any happier, even if they are genuinely dysmorphic.
And naturally Mark Bradley’s wife found the ‘trans woman’ difficult. This was a person who was definitively mentally ill. A man playing a role he couldn’t possibly understand. It is no coincidence that most ‘trans women’ behave like hysterical misogynistic parodies of womanhood.
Puberty blockers are not irreversible nor do they cause sterility. Puberty resumes upon cessation of the drug. In fact they are commonly prescribed to biological females going through precocious puberty, because no child needs a period at age 8. For adults, hormone therapy is used and has been proven relatively safe. Its most common application is to relieve the symptoms of menopause. Please read about health care for trans people from reputable medical sources like the Mayo Clinic.
Additionally, please refrain from judging all trans people based on your interactions with one person. My trans friend is quite pleasant to be around, but he is not a mascot for all of them. They’re just people, and like all people, some of them are going to be lemons.
@Cassowary
Puberty blockers might cause mild to severe atrophy in the testes of biological males. Study is here though it is not yet peer reviewed: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38585884/
There is a an interesting reddit thread about this here, with the top commenter named ajaxfriend making some interesting discoveries when actually digging through the cited sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/1bxfq3c/new_mayo_clinic_study_shows_puberty_blockers/
Mark, here are some more anecdotes. My wife’s former boss is a trans person, and she’s an asshole. I had a trans colleague at my job who is a kind, completely honorable person. Our trans niece is one of the steadiest and coolest people I know. All of these people have faced hate, ignorance, and bigotry the likes of which us privileged pasty straights could never imagine.
You seem to associate gender dysmorphia with mental illness, as though the dysmorphia is caused by emotional and psychological problems. In fact, in the vast majority of cases, it’s the other way around. The mental issues trans people develop are the result of social pressure–they are told that their genuine feelings are wrong and evil. A constant barrage of that message, a denial and condemnation of your core beliefs about yourself, would drive most people nuts. When trans people receive a measure of acceptance, plus counseling and/or medical intervention as needed, symptoms of neurosis or worse dissipate. Plenty of studies confirm this.
You’re usually a responsible, serious participant in this forum. Your reliance here on dodgy studies and online banter by non-experts and outright fools is out of character, and I don’t get it.
Oh, and Marius, I understand that “trans lobby” you speak of is in cahoots with the Illuminati to turn today’s youth into a race of slaves to the shadowy Spectre cabal. Get off.
@steve
You have certainly given me something to think about and reflect on. Have a good one and thanks for sharing your views.